Couple 'use daughter's drumming on neighbours' in £150k fight over leaky gutter (2024)

Robert and Helena Flach are in a bitter row with their neighbour (Image: Champion News)

A church-going couple are being accused of using their daughter's "deafening" drumming as a weapon in a £150,000 fight with their neighbour fight over leaky guttering at their £1.2million house. Insurance broker Robert Flach, 56, and his wife Helena are fighting translator Celia Tan after she ripped out their gutter amid a bitter dispute over the position of the boundary between their properties.

Ms Tan removed her neighbours' guttering in 2019, claiming it was overhanging the border between their homes in Ruislip, west London, by a matter of "inches" and was leaking water onto her property.

But the Flachs insist the boundary line is five inches beyond the wall between their houses, meaning the guttering was wholly on their land. They are now suing Ms Tan for trespass and the £1,880 cost of replacing the lost guttering.

However, Ms Tan is countersuing, alleging a series of intrusive acts by her neighbours - including that Mrs Flach encouraged her daughter Maria to play the drums at a "deafening" volume while the couple were at church on Sunday mornings.

As the case kicked off at Central London CountyCourt, a judge warned the warring neighbours that the stakes were high, with the loser "pouring £150,000 down the drain" to pay for the cost of their court fight.

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The court heard that tensions between the two families have been building after Ms Tan and her daughter Rebecca moved into a two-bedroom house, now valued online at about £700,000, next door to the Flachs' £1.2million home in Old Hatch Manor in October 2009.

The Flachs' barrister, Adam Swirsky, explained that the core issue to be decided by Judge Alan Saggerson is the position of the boundary between the two properties, with Ms Tan claiming that it runs through the middle of the flank wall of the Flachs' garage extension.

Ms Tan, who came to the UK in 1995 to study English, claims that guttering perched on the garage's flank wall was positioned so that it dumped rainwater on her land and as a result she decided to remove it.

The warring neighbours are also fighting over fences positioned in the front and rear garden, with Mr Swirsky suggesting that Ms Tan has "gradually over time moved your boundaries at the front and at the back further over into the Flachs' property" - which she denied.

Ms Tan, 53, is countersuing her neighbours for £85,000 to compensate for an alleged reduction in value of her home caused by trespass, encroachment and damage. She is also seeking an injunction barring the Flachs from using what she claims is intrusive CCTV near her home.

Maria Flach is said to have played the drums very loudly while her parents were at church (Image: Champion News)

She alleges a series of intrusive acts, including trespass and damage to fence panels, a mature tree and garden wall, as well as theft of number plates from a fence and "nuisance by videoing her and her family in her garden both with handheld devices and CCTV".

On top of that, she says she and her daughter, Rebecca, have been plagued over the years by Mrs Flach encouraging her daughter Maria to play the drums at a "deafening" volume. Ms Tan's daughter, Rebecca Edge, gave evidence saying the Flachs would leave their daughter at home playing the drums on Sunday mornings when they went to church, adding: "She would play for 40 minutes per day on average."

It was put to Mrs Flach in the witness box that she was being accused by her neighbour of harassing Ms Tan by "encouraging" her daughter to play the drums. Mrs Flach replied: "Maria was at the local school where she was playing drums. She was sitting her grade five exams and needed practice time."

She added that her daughter had generally never played more than once a week on a set of "dampened" drums. Ms Tan had banged on the walls with "spades and other implements" and the Flachs had ultimately got rid of the drumkit, it was claimed, although Ms Tan and her daughter denied the banging.

Defending Ms Tan's actions in having the gutter ripped out, her barrister told the judge: "Her position is that the guttering was a trespass and, moreover, leaked and was causing damage to her property."

She had taken it down and blocked off the gutters to stop water streaming onto her land, he said, adding: "Her position is that the claimants configured their house so all the rain water on the back of the house flowed along that guttering. She blocked that off so there was no further water coming onto her property."

But lawyers for the Flachs say she had no valid reason to tear down the gutter, which, even on her own case, was her responsibility to maintain as she claims it sat on a shared party wall.

If the guttering really was defective, she could have taken it down and had it replaced, said Mr Swirsky, telling Ms Tan: "Instead of doing that, you had your builders take the gutter down completely and throw it over their fence."

Ms Tan from the witness box replied: "The gutter is over my land, but it's not my responsibility. I have no use for the gutter, it's not mine. It was causing damage and nuisance."

The Flachs' barrister told the court Ms Tan has previously clashed with the Flachs and other neighbours and was handed a criminal behaviour order (CBO) after being convicted of harassment following a trial at Isleworth Crown Court in February 2016.

During her trial, which she claims led to the "unjustified" CBO, Ms Tan was accused of consistently calling traffic wardens to complain about parking, branded neighbours "scum", took film footage from her bedroom window and in the street, and mounted the pavement in her car.

Rejecting claims that his clients directed CCTV cameras over the fence at Ms Tan, Mr Swirsky insisted the equipment was exclusively focused on their own garden, adding: "They are entitled to have CCTV - this may be thought prudent given the criminal behaviour order made against Ms Tan."

He went on: "The claimants have installed CCTV, but it is trained on (their house not Ms Tan's). They are within their rights to do this, and an injunction should not be made.

"Any recording/filming is tit for tat recording of allegations and counter allegations," said the barrister, highlighting alleged incidents in 2018 and 2019 when Ms Tan had filmed Mrs Flach on her mobile phone.

Nor was there was any justification for Ms Tan seeking an anti-harassment order preventing the couple from "approaching or following her", said Mr Swirsky. But Ms Tan's barrister pointed out that his client had to be specially vigilant about her conduct due to the criminal behaviour order slapped on her in February 2016.

And he added: "It is clear, both from Ms Tan's witness statement and from the photographs, that the claimants seek to try to provoke her, to photograph her with their CCTV, and to claim that they can be rude towards her when she is not permitted to answer.

"This amounts to a course of conduct which is harassment within the meaning of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 and the claimants should be restrained from this."

At a pre-trial hearing last month, Judge Saggerson bemoaned the cost of the litigation over such a small piece of land and commented: "I know this is all very vexing for the neighbours, but we are talking about inches".

But Ms Tan's barrister explained: "We are talking about inches, but nonetheless we are in a position where they have fallen out and it is causing arguments and it does have to be resolved.

"The claimants say they own all of the wall of their garage and also a little strip of land beyond it, to which they don't have any access. It causes arguments. It may only be inches but unfortunately, absent a negotiated settlement, it matters. Unfortunately, we are where we are."

The judge commented: "How much are the parties pouring down the drain on this dispute?" before adding: "The loser will have to spend £150,000 sorting it out."

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